NUNAR editor-in-chief Damon Barnes talks to his brother, NUNAR executive editor, and music artist Daloren. The following are excerpts of audio transcripts from car conversations over the past year exploring Daloren’s creative process behind his latest 9-track alternative hip-hop/rap album, Dreaming in Disturbia, which was released on August 31.

The brothers also discuss their unique experiences as twins involved in various creative pursuits and reflect on the importance of embracing the creative process and pursuing your dreams.

At home in Maryland, sometime in April, 2023.

Daloren:

It is poetic, so it's not like the chorus is something where you interpret it. You can interpret it in many different ways, but the verses are more specific. Of course. It gives you different perspectives, different planes of view, and then just the different melodies and sonic values that are going on between the first half of the song [“November Rain”] and the second half. The second half is more melodic, more euphoric, the euphoria bursting at the seams. And then it builds up into the last part of the song so nicely it's like, how can you not appreciate this? I'm just talking about it from outside of myself. I'm not trying to brag or anything. Once this out, the art is out. 

Damon Barnes: You think the radios would play?

D: Potentially, but I'm not going to base the success of the song off if it gets played on the radio. I will base it off of how well it's received and streamed mostly, and hopefully the visualizers for it will take it places. Now I'm very confident in this song in a way that I wasn't before. And that was due to the changes that were made. I knew the song would be good when I made the instrumental, so the bar was already set. I just had to meet that bar and I got to say it was a challenge.

DB: What was the challenge?

Writing the song. Writing the song didn't come right off. A lot of songs you can listen to a beat and you can start something. At least you can start something and come back to it and keep finishing it, but something didn't come to that until a couple or three months later. That's on the long side for me personally. I mean some songs can take longer to write for artists, but that's definitely, I would say, on a longer side for artists to be able to write to something.

DB: To be able to finish a song?

D: To be able to even start the song, to have that vision come to you. It was such a unique beat. You had to meet it a certain way or you weren't going to do it justice.

DB: You’re talking about the process of getting it out of your mind and accurately into a song?

D: Well, more so letting the creation come to you in a way, which is what Rick Rubin teaches his philosophy on the creative process, which is creativity is in the ether. It comes to you and passes through you. Once it hits you, once it comes to you have the chance to cultivate it. Basically, we shouldn't control the creative process. We should let the creative process come to you. 

That was very much the case with this song. Whereas with other songs, like "Good Times", I wrote half of "Good Times" in one night. Right off the bat I made the beat and wrote to it, wrote half the song if not more than one night, which is on the other spectrum of it. Not for “November Rain”. I'm proud that I was able to meet the challenge. As an artist, something that's a milestone to make something and commit to making something and carrying out the vision that you had to the T. That's rare actually, as an artist, it's actually rare.

DB: It takes mastering that ability to pull from the ether and let it come to you and being able to know, have the technical know-how to make it to actually make it.

D: Yeah, yeah. You have to. Because when you try to control the creative process, that's when it gets hard. You're not getting original, you're not getting genuine or it's not feeling like it's just has ‘it’. I mean, honestly, to make good work though, you have to experience stuff if you really want to enjoy good stuff. So I would say mean other than that, you better have some good-sounding music, at least if you're going to be writing garbage or just regurgitating stuff. But if you want to make something that touches people, we have to write from the heart. So that's what happened here and that's how it came to me. The vision for that [November Rain] beat actually wasn't even-- I wanted to go more so hip hop.

DB: And this is more...?

Daloren: Well, this is still hip-hop I guess, but it's more on the RnB, alternative RnB, alternative hip-hop. I mean that's how it came to be. I originally didn't want it to have any romance undertones or lost love undertones. That wasn't the vision I had for it. When I made the beat, it was a banging beat. I was like, this is going to be hard. Wrap some tight lyrics over it. Get a bomb chorus. Well, that happened, but it happened in a different color than what I expected. A different vibe, theme, which is all good. It's all, that's how it's supposed to happen. That was how it was supposed to happen. I love that. Creative creation is your closest. Your closest…

DB: It's the closest thing to free will?

Daloren: Well, it's just like anything goes at a certain point when you allow the creativity to come to you or it's like you can't make a wrong choice as long as you, I mean, because the choice that's coming to you is the choice that was meant for it, if that makes sense. Because allowing the creativity to come to you, so you're just a painter and the colors are being brought to you, if that makes sense.

DB: The colors and strokes.

Daloren: And, ideally, you're going to have to have good taste, obviously to be able to receive good stuff, you have to have good taste.

DB: That comes with exposure to culture.

D: Yeah, good taste. This project definitely is what made me realize I actually can be the artist I set out to be.

Later in April, smoking a blunt.

Daloren: The album that I'm in right now, I don't really plan to have eras. If anything, the eras would be in the way that I look. Of course, with each album, there's going to be a distinct sound, and that could be each era when you're measuring it by albums. Each era is measured by album. So for each album, there's going to be different themes and whatnot. So that could be how we measure my era.

Damon Barnes: Basically the era is what you're talking about, what the subject matter is?

D: I mean, I'll just do what I want and then people will make the eras for me, try to make sense of it. But I'll just see what the creative takes me. Eras really define themselves, I guess once they're done and I haven't even started yet. Yeah, I don't really, really concern myself with that. Just continue to make songs. 

Because for real for real, the idea of eras mostly comes from industry artists who are curated to such an extent. If the label wants to make one type of sound or a type of sound, they're in that type of sound, even if they want to do other sounds. So maybe, who knows how many artists are actually very versatile and only can be able to release one certain type of music.

That's the sound that sells the most, the best. Some artists who manage themselves and are independent under their own label might have a little bit more freedom to do what they want.

DB: It seems like the freedom to have to craft your own eras or just craft your own career, just craft your experience as an artist could be lost in the industry and what the era of music is, or what era the music industry is in. And I think it's, well, what would you do if you couldn't release? I mean, all the songs that you're creating, and you're only able to release a certain subset of them, because the label says so.

D: I mean, that wouldn't be ideal. 

DB: Is there a way we can bridge the gap between the sound they believe is popular and your sound? There are numerous alternative artists who have secured record deals, so it's possible that even within the alternative genres, there is room for diverse sounds. I think there's a lane for probably everyone out there. A label out there for everyone, I guess.

D: Yeah, yeah. Ideally, I would want to manage myself and not be under a label. So I mean, that'd be ideal. Next best thing would be I get to be with a label who actually supports artists. Maybe that could be the best thing. You just have to find the label that supports, that actually supports artists. There's some independent labels that take care of their artists for the most part. 

DB: What does independent mean?

D: They’re not of the big three labels, so they're not either subsidiaries or whatever.

DB: Mhm. Also, we should be receiving those visuals tomorrow. 

D: … What food did mom make?

Later in early October, 2023.

Damon Barnes: Like you were just saying, it's not often, not very common that twins are in this situation. It's not that common to have twins exist let alone be involved together in so much artistically: you as a music artist, coordinating your rollout together, being magazine owners, painter, filmmaker, model, record producer, writer, all of this. So I mean, why did it happen to us? Why do you think it happened to us?

Daloren: I don't know. I just say, why not? We wanted to pursue it, and we were allowed to, encouraged to by a dad, and I think it was just nurtured. When you nurture something, it grows. So I think we both had an appreciation for creating things, and we did it on our own at first, but then we found a way to use it together, and that's what that looks like. That's what this looks like. So I think that's really it. Why? I don't think it's a matter of why I think it was always going to be that way. I mean, both of us are, I would say we're deeper thinkers, but I think it's like I, creative thinkers, we want to creatively think about things and express ourselves in creative ways. Maybe we didn't really do that when we were young.

DB: I would say it showed signs of itself. The creativity and the mindset showed its signs early in some ways. When we had the stuffed animals—

D: I already knew you were going to say that.

DB: Right? And the storytelling we did there, the world building- the imagination to create worlds on a floor in a house, and then leave it there and pick it up, come back to it later and remember what's going on and have these narratives. And then the internet happened, and then we had all these music games and computer games, and I distinctly remember the Andre 3000 game.

We was making real beats on there. And I mean, obviously, well, you've taken to the music earlier than me at least. But I think, yeah, there were also definitely signs within just how we could be able to interact and understand each other. I mean, I'm sure other siblings can relate to this, but maybe there's something unique in being born in the exact same age as your sibling and developing that closely together, I think we were able to develop some sort of understanding that allowed us to play in those ways. And also just individually ourselves. I think we did have that creative initiative or interest in it at least. But it is funny because I know we had different interests earlier in life. I wanted to be a meteorologist, and I think you were into sports and stuff.

D: I wanted to be a sports agent or something like that, or just basically a businessman. So I always wanted to be that and kind of accomplish that in a way. But yeah, I always think about that though. I mean, the path we've been on, how long we've been on this path. I mean, not even knowing you’re on the path, but I don't know. I think it is also about the people you grew up with. I grew up with James he was in the church choir. He was making music, and he was actually doing that way before me. Being the friends we were and me having interests, being sparked in music during that time, having guitar class and shit like that. It became a mutual interest of ours, and it's like, okay, we both like music, let's make some music.

We always wanted to make music. I didn't really start taking it seriously until after high school, I guess after high school, that's when I knew I wanted to do music and I just wanted to do music. I wanted to write music, play guitar and all that. And then AJ let us know he wanted to do music too. I was like, okay, that's how it happens. But I wonder what happened if I didn't have friends who were interested in the same things, or if I had friends who were interested in the wrong things that could’ve led me from the path that we're on today. So I think it's a good, well, the circle, the company you keep is just as important to kind of reach that path, reach that goal, stay on that path.

DB: Yeah, that's definitely true. Yeah, and it does feel like there was–even more strongly now– there feels like a strong attraction or a good attraction, a force that is bringing people into our lives and has always been sort of, well, not always. There have been people who came and gone, but it does feel like we're finding our people. And so, yeah, I remember AJ and James in middle school, and I had classes with AJ. We had been friends off of that. I don't think I had class with James, but I did remember him from lunch. 

After middle school, we sort of fell out of each other's circles and sort of spheres. It wasn't until college, after college for both of us, that we all really came together together. I mean, that brings us to 2019 and 2020, you guys had started NuNarrative.

D: Well, you were in LA when we started NuNarrative. Then when you came back, that's when you added that kind of the know-how. But it didn't really get meshed together until the pandemic once there was nothing to do. We were kind of bored. What can we do that's fulfilling? I mean, it's a lot. The pandemic started, and I always say this, the pandemic, it stopped us in our tracks. We were about to foreseeably start doing shows and NuNarrative and had just done a couple of shows, and they went pretty well. We went to Philly and had a great show there. And then the pandemic happened, and it was like, damn, well, what to do from here? Just can't go out anywhere. You can't do anything.

We couldn't make music because James was the only one who knew how to mix and whatever, and you can't go over to hub's houses, you're quarantined. So it really just shut everything down. But that's when, and we came up with that idea. We were really, you're still operating in that sense of new narrative that we were about to embark on until the pandemic happened. So we can't make music. How else can we bring this mission to life then? Then we settled on the magazine, the idea of a magazine, or the idea of promoting artists and giving artists a platform. So that just took the form of a magazine. That's how it happened.

D: It's the motor and what's behind the drive. Honestly, for me, it's knowing how to not fail in the future. Coming up with the know-how so that you can do what you want to do.

Getting better always makes me, it gives me a shot of dopamine, like learning a skill, learning a new way, how to engineer something, learning a new production tactic with, or learning how to play an instrument, developing a skill. It gives me dopamine. It makes me want to keep going so I can make something even more beautiful and execute something even more beautiful fully. You're able to, you have these thoughts in your mind, but you're not skilled enough to carry it out. So I am in a constant state of learning when it comes to music. I'm always analyzing a song I listen to. I mean, I'm still able to enjoy it.

Recently I've been able to learn how to enjoy it, used to give me anxiety listening to songs because it made me think of my songs and how I'm not there yet, or good enough to execute the song that beautifully.

DB: I feel that way with films right now, I think.

D: Yeah, well, I think every artist who embarks on a journey feels that because we have this thing of we have good tastes, but we don't have the skills to serve that taste. And we get discouraged because we can't fulfill what's in our minds yet. And I mean, I just love the creative process so much because there's really no wrong answer to that. There's really no right or wrong answer when you're creating art. So that's what people, I think a lot of people get hung up on. They have to do something the right way in order for it to look good or sound good, or for people to receive it. 

Well, that's not really the case. I mean, honestly, I'm a self-taught engineer, self-taught producer, self-taught writer, self-taught recording artist, and a lot of people don't understand. Recording is a skill as well, and being self-taught and all of that.

I mean, it can only come from loving the creative process and loving just every aspect of creating. And I think as an artist, you should have that if you want to succeed. But a lot of people think about creating in the wrong way. 

Creating allows me to be free. I can be free when I'm creating and when I'm painting, I can make something that I could have an idea starting out and totally, and at a different idea, totally different from what I set out on. And I encourage that. And I love when I'm able to arrive at that destination and I see where the creativity led me. And so I think that's how people should think about creating it, allow it to lead you and you not lead it where people get tripped up. You have that taste, you have the good taste. Just learn how to let the creativity lead you.