Sometime in mid-September of last year, DMV rapper Malik Elijah– amongst other artists such as Micah and Kinrose– was performing at The Pocket in DC. With rappers, Kwajo and Sh1nob1, also attending the same show, I luckily had the chance to speak with them about their latest single “Inside Out” hitting 100k streams (now at 800k+ streams) on Spotify and their connection with Chicago rapper Saba. Kwajo and Sh1nob1, real names Nathan and Darryl, are 22-year-old fraternal twins based in Northern Virginia known for their smooth flows and colorful melodies. Though they both make music individually themselves, you can often find them making music together.

Amy Kanyavong: First of all, I just wanna say congrats on your song, “Inside Out,” reaching 100k streams on Spotify.

Kwajo: Thank you so much, we appreciate that.

AK: Actually, yesterday I saw it reached like 150,000. That’s crazy.

KJ: Yeah, it is crazy.

AK: So, can you describe the moment you found out about your song reaching this milestone?

KJ: Yeah, so, we were kinda anticipating the day that it would happen because we were averaging like a thousand streams a day so by the time it got to ninety-eight and ninety-nine, we kinda knew that it’d be the next day. So, we were kinda like mentally prepared for it. But it was still a different feeling actually seeing the number on the screen.

AK: Did you guys celebrate it?

Sh1nob1: Umm, I mean, we got excited about it and we got hype but like–

KJ: Yeah, for the milestones of this song, it’s kinda like really easy to get caught up in the numbers and the streams. But for us, it was like a cool quick moment but we don’t really dwell on it too long because we know there is always more work to be done.

AK: Yeah, for sure. It’s good to know you’re moving up but to stay present in the moment is also important.

KJ: Right, you gotta stay humble about it. Yeah.

AK: Okay, would you say that you’re the outgoing type of people?

KJ: Yeah, I feel like our friends would describe us as extroverts for sure.

AK: Do you think that translates to your music?

KJ: I would hope so, I would hope so. Actually, I guess, I’m a pretty extroverted person but I feel like in my music at the moment, I don’t get too personal. But I feel like, especially in the music I’ve been working on lately, I’m just tryna open up more. Not necessarily in like, an extroverted level, but at a level where I’m able to connect with people in a deeper understanding.

AK: What would you say for you? 

SB: For me, being extroverted kinda like translates to my confidence inside of my lyrics cause I feel like, being confident whenever you’re making music is one of the most important parts of being an artist. So, I think that has really helped me mold myself into the artist I am today.

AK: I can definitely hear it in your recent song too. I’ve been bumpin’ to that a lot.

SB: Thank you.

AK: So, you guys are fraternal twins from Loudon County. Tell me about your upbringing. You said that you grew up in Northern Virginia, right?

KJ: Yeah, we grew up in Northern Virginia. Um, single mom. We didn’t really get exposed to hip-hop and that culture just because in the Northern Virginia area, it’s predominantly white. So, we didn’t really have the chance to experience the culture and what hip-hop had to offer. Especially, because we grew up on pop punk and pop stuff. So we didn’t really get exposed to rap until like late high school. At least for me, it was my senior year. So, I didn’t start listening to rap like that at least. And yeah, it’s a culture shock. Especially, transitioning to college where I met Aman and Khayri (his friends/team). They really like, helped me tap into my inner blackness and really engage that full force and just see a different perspective. I felt so in love with being black and things like that as opposed to where I grew up around a lot of white people. I was not necessarily ashamed of who I was, but like, I didn’t really embrace it.

SB: But, I also feel like being in the area that we were, and having the culture of like pop and rock, I feel like that has also helped influence the music that we make today. It definitely contributes to our versatility. So, it’s a nice combination of blackness and the area we’re in. So, we’re like one big mix and we get like the best of both worlds which has really elevated our music.

AK: So, you guys are Ghanaian, was your culture present in your upbringing?

KJ: Yeah, it definitely was present in our upbringing and not as much as it should've been just because my mom had it rough growing up. So, where we grew up, was a result of her trying to get away from that and create a different environment for us versus where she grew up in. So, especially when it came to like music and stuff because in Ghanaian culture, it’s always like hard work and education first. So, music was just seen as a hobby and nothing too serious. Yeah, we differently have a connection to our family when it comes to the culture. But music, we’re not on the same page yet but we’re getting there.

AK: Okay, so, I guess you already answered my question. How does your mom feel about you pursuing music?

KJ: It’s funny cause, she’s not necessarily against it. Like, she loves it. When “Inside Out” dropped and all the craziness was going on and we told her about it, she didn’t necessarily understand it. Like when we got played on Zane Lowe’s show and Apple Music 1, like one of the biggest radio stations in the world, she was like, that’s great but make sure you’re still doing your homework and stuff like that. So, it’s not necessarily that she doesn’t support it, she does, but her whole thing is like education first and things like that. But you know, I think as time goes on and we’re done with our education and we really start pursuing music, then she’ll kinda see it from our lens.

AK: I can totally get that background from being a first-generation child myself [laughs].

KJ: Yeah, for sure.

AK: Okay, so you guys are in school. What are you guys studying?

KJ: We’re studying computer science. Tryna get into cybersecurity.

AK: Dang, how do you do both that and music?

KJ: It’s a hard balance. It’s definitely a hard balance. But doing computer science, I would say that, with the balance of both it has shown me which one I want more. Obviously, it’s music because with computer science, it’s like the more I fell in love with music, the more I fell out of love with computer science. So, it was kinda like a contrast that showed me my real direction of life. Like sure. I’m gonna get this degree. Probably gonna get a job in that temporarily. But I know that in the long term, music is where I wanna go. 

AK: So, you found that it has made your vision a lot clearer?

KJ: Yeah, for sure.

AK: So, I heard you guys grew up doing freestyles in recess in elementary. And you guys started taking music seriously four years ago, so when you were like seventeen. Was there ever a defining moment that made you guys realize that this is what you want to do?

KJ: At first, from the transition of the freestyles to actually sitting down and writing the songs, the main thing that I noticed, not only like the feeling that it gave me, it helped me kinda release the emotions that I felt at the time. A lot of people deal with their emotions differently whether if it’s a sport or it can be as deep as a drug or something. But I found a lot of release in making music and I could express things I wouldn’t have been able to express. Especially with my mom not necessarily understanding my music, there wasn’t really anybody I could open up to in a way that I could completely let go. I could open up to my mom about certain things, but in terms of what was going on in my life, the easiest way was writing it in music.

But the defining moment that kind of made me realize that this is what I wanted to do, um, I feel like I’ve always been musically inclined. I knew that I wanted to do something in music always. You know, when it started with the covers. We would do these cringey covers when we wanted to make a band. But with hip-hop, it was more so the impact. After we dropped our first songs, hearing that it connected on a much more personal level with people, obviously that was my intention going into making a song but actually hearing that from another human being is one of the best feelings in the world. 

SB: I was about to say, same thing with me. I think it was my first ever big song dropping, it was with me and Nathan called “Don't Forget About Me.” I guess it was the feedback from everybody who really liked it and resonated with it and even inspired some of them to make music. If I have this impact for such a small group of people, how can I affect such a large group of people?

AK: You mentioned a band, was it you two together? Like a duo?

SB: Yeah [laughs].

KJ: Before we started rapping, we started this band in middle school called Too Young For This. If you go on my YouTube channel, you can find all those cringey covers from like years ago.

SB: It was us and two other friends.

KJ: Yeah, our friends Brianna and Everly. We were big, big, big, big Five Seconds of Summer fans.

SB: Still till this day, still till this day.

KJ: Yeah, they were our main inspiration for us to start this band. And that was like, our first attempt at making anything musical. But that kind of fizzled out really quickly. So, we kinda were floating around for about a year. 

SB: And that’s when we made that transition from pop-rock to rap.

AK: Is there a certain sound you want to start incorporating more?

SB: That’s a good question.

KJ: As of recent, I really want to dive into house music. I feel like one of my biggest strengths in music or something I’m really comfortable with is singing. I like combining singing and rapping. I feel like house music is the perfect avenue to do that. So, that’s definitely something I wanna tackle. I have a song with another artist named Donte Thomas. He had a house record he sent and he was like, “I feel like you’d be perfect on this.” And I heard it and I was like, dang maybe I should try some more house stuff. I eventually want to move back to more pop-punk stuff.

AK: I noticed you do a lot more melodic rap and you (directing towards Sh1nob1) do more lyrical rap.

SB: Yeah, Nathan’s the singer in the family so he has a lot more vocal range and presence. I guess my strength is just rapping. So, I’m trying to incorporate more of the melodic rapping as well.

AK: Okay, so, this is a question I originally had prior. I recently watched Kwajo’s Instagram live where you were going through your whole marketing plan. And what blew my mind is that you didn’t run any ads and you only spent like thirty bucks on it, right?

KJ: Yeah.

AK: That’s crazy

KJ: Yeah, I definitely wanna say God was a big proponent for this song. It’s like, every artist thinks that the song is the one regardless of what it is. But after me and Darryl [Sh1nob1] wrapped up recording Inside Out at 3 am, just the feeling we got from that song was incomparable to any other record we ever made. Especially when we finally got the final master back. I remember when I was making the marketing plan for it, the first thing I typed in bold letters was ‘Put God first.’ I feel like from that, everything else was able to flow through because literally every other goal I had on the marketing sheet got checked off so fast. And the thirty dollars that I spent was for a playlist submission from this TikTok curator. The playlist didn’t even do much. 

SB: If we hadn’t done that, we wouldn’t have spent a single dollar on ads and a lot of that was because of Nathan knowing a lot of people.

KJ: Yeah, I’ve made a lot of connections in the past year or two. So, that definitely helped. Like, I made the connections and establishments so that when I had the music and they were ready to hear it, it definitely helped for sure.

AK: Yeah, I feel like that’s something a lot of independent artists tend to not focus on so much when it comes to marketing their music. They just kinda post on their story saying their song’s out now, that’s a big pet peeve of mine for sure.

KJ: Yeah, it’s like one and done.

AK: So, you guys have met Saba before? 

KJ: Yeah, the goat.

AK: Can you like tell me how that happened? He’s one of my favorite artists so when I saw that picture of you guys I got so excited.

KJ: Yeah he’s one of the greatest rappers of all time. It’s actually fun, I met him here in 2019. Pivot Gang was on tour. That entire story was crazy. So, I tell this interview because it’s my favorite thing ever. But originally, me and Darryl were running late to the concert. It started at like 8, and we pulled up right at 8 so we thought we missed it. And we couldn’t find parking cause it’s DC. I drive by and I see this cop sitting there. And I ask him, “Bro, do you know anywhere I can park for free, I don’t got money.” And he was like, “You didn’t hear it from me but the Seven Eleven down the block has free parking.” So, we go down there, run into the venue and the line’s already packed up. So, we’re pushed in the back but we’re by a staircase that goes upstairs. And we thought the venue was one big floor. But a person was like, “Oh, we’re going upstairs,” so we were already in the front. So, we go up to the front. And I actually ended up dancing on stage with Joseph (Saba’s brother). That was a crazy moment.

Then after, when I actually met him, when they went back to the merch table, of course, it was all crowded ‘cause it’s Saba. It got to the point where his manager was like look, unless you’re buying merch you can’t take a picture. So, there was a kid who already bought merch and I wish I got his name. Till this day I regret it, that’s one of my biggest regrets. But I was like, “Yo, Saba’s my favorite rapper. Please, can I take this shirt and say I bought it so I can get a picture with him.” And he’s like, “Yeah yeah yeah sure.” So, I got it, went over there, I was like standing right in front of him (Saba) and I was like, What is happening right now? We were talking for two minutes, I was telling him how much he inspires me and fanboying out for a couple of seconds. And the thing that he said to me that stuck with me: he was like, “I don’t know what it is but I feel like I’ll see you again.” And I was like starstruck. We got a picture and everything and then we left.

Fast forward three years later – I had talked to him in DMs here and there – but fast forward three years later, we dropped “Inside Out” and I was like if I was gonna send any song to him, it was gonna be this song. So, I sent him a lil’ post on my Instagram and said, “Me and Sh1nob1 just dropped this new song, would love to see what you think.” That was like 11 at night so I was like, So what, if he leaves me on read it is what it is. And then the next day at like 3 o’clock in the afternoon, I get a notification that Saba Pivot liked your video and commented, “This is hard.” And I almost passed out. I was like, What is happening? And that was just such a full-circle moment. It’s like the moments that any artist looks forward to.

Saba was the person who inspired me to start rapping so to see him actually mess with the song that I made was crazy. And then, he was doing a pop-up show actually nearby here at American University. We went and we actually got to the show before soundcheck. So, we were there when he came for soundcheck and while he was soundchecking, he recognized me and stopped and was like, “You’re that guy.” And I was like, “Jeez, I guess I am that guy.” And he came down and we just chopped it up for a minute and it was just such a cool moment. Just being able to connect on that personal level because I feel like what a lot of artists make mistakes today is treating every relationship like it’s a transactional relationship to see where they can get from another person.

But at the end of the day, big artists or small artists, we’re all just human. So, being able to connect with him on that level was really dope. And he actually followed me on Instagram that same day. So, I’m forever grateful for that moment. And the next time we meet him, hopefully, we’ll be performing. I kinda told him I was like, “Next time you tour, me and Sh1nob1 are gonna open for you.” And he was like, “Bet, let’s do it.” 

AK: I can definitely see that! Do you see a collab on the way?

SB: I hope so.

KJ: Oh, gosh. The day I get a Saba song, I would– lord knows. It’s gonna be crazy.

AK: Yeah, like I’ve said prior, Saba’s one of my favorite artists and something that I admire about him is his lyricism and his ability to stay genuine. And I think that could have something to do with him remaining independent. Would you say that’s something important for you or would you be open to getting signed?

KJ: I feel like Saba has definitely put a good example for independent artists. When I first started out and didn’t know much about the industry, a lot of it was like I’m gonna be independent forever. But I think if the right deal were to come along the way, then it’s maybe something I’d consider. But I think for now, for the most part, I think I’m just gonna stay independent just because I love having control over my music. I don’t want someone else to dictate when I can release a song. And it’s crazy cause Inside Out has been going crazy and we’ve had certain labels hit us up about like certain things but we’re kinda just keeping our eggs all in one basket right now. I think as long as you have a good team around you and some good music, being independent can take you to the sky.

(Note: We see music artist Malik Elijah across from us.)

KJ: Malik! Malik!

MK: Yo!

KJ: Hold on, we’re in the middle of an interview. We’ll be there!

AK: Okay, so you just dropped your songs “Over and Over” (Kwajo) and “New Start, New Day” (Sh1nob1), what should we be expecting in the coming months?

KJ: Umm, I can’t reveal too much but just know me and Malik have a song on the way along with a couple other songs.

SB: I guess for me, it’s just a couple of singles, a couple big collabs on the way. 

AK: Okay so, last question or two. Where do you see yourselves in two years and what advice do you have for small artists?

SB: In two years, I see myself more established. Maybe not like, Grammy award winning, but I feel like I’ll be well known in the game. And advice for artists, just stay true to yourself because a lot of people try to be something they’re not. Especially with the rappers today. So stay true to your craft and do music for the right reasons.

KJ: Two years from now, I definitely see me and Sh1nob1 on tour of some sort and making music with some big artists. I feel like, people have gotten a taste of what we can do with our song Inside Out so I think the next two years are gonna be spent showing versatility and building upon connections we already have and just making good music.

SB: Having a good time.

KJ: Yeah, advice for artists, if you stay true to yourself, sky’s the limit. I think that being yourself can take you so far. Especially in an industry where it’s easy to fall into carbon copies of everyone and following what’s new and popular. So yeah, just stay true to yourself and love what you do, that’s about it.